Ep 47: What’s Next? How to Thrive as a Marketer in 2020

Episode Summary:

In “What’s Next? How To Thrive as a Marketer in 2020,” the Messenger Mastermind team does a brief recap of the 2019 marketing landscape and covers what we can expect in 2020. They also add some predictions on where they think each platform is going and how you can get ahead of the competition.
To learn more about the Messenger Mastermind Team, visit: www.MessengerMastermind.co

Episode Highlights:

  1. 3:12 What were the greatest wins and the biggest changes on Messenger in 2019?
  2. 6:12 Massive Messenger Predictions for 2020. What’s going to change?
  3. 7:37 What were the landmark changes in 2019 from a Facebook Ads perspective?
  4. 10:41 The BIG Facebook Ads Predictions for 2020 and strategies
  5. 17:25 There IS still a ton of FREE organic traffic on Facebook: GROUPS!
  6. 22:10 Facebook Groups Predictions for 2020: Paid Groups, or no Paid Groups?
  7. 24:17 HUGE PREDICTION ALERT: Why SMS is going to be the new email
  8. 29:32 An SMS Revenue Challenge from the team: Are YOU up to it?

 

Resources Mentioned:

  1. Facebook Messenger Tool – Manychat
  2. Messenger and SMS platform – Octane AI
  3. Web Push Notifications – PushOwl
  4. Email Platform- Klaviyo
  5. Marketing Automation – Listrak
  6. Marketing Automation – OmniSend
  7. SMS Marketing – PostScript

 

Episode Transcript:

Jeremy: Welcome, welcome to another week’s episode of the Messenger Mastermind podcast. As always, I’m your host, Jeremy Horowitz, joined by my incredible co-hosts, Mark Aruda and Ben Vandal. As 2019 wraps up and 2020 begins, we wanted to provide a quick episode that brings the year together. For us, and I’m sure for a lot of your businesses, there were a lot of changes in 2019 that were really impactful and we just want to cover what we think are going to be the most important in every channel as well as for us as well, it’s a good time of year for us to look back at all the crazy things that have happened.

Just a couple quick things: Mark and Ben had a speaking engagement where they helped—what was it, like ten businesses?—with their channel diversification this year.

 

Ben: Yeah, we had a chance to go down to Austin and meet with Austin Brawner, speak at his event, and get them set up with their first Messenger campaigns. It was a lot of fun, we got to meet a lot of great companies and help them get the ball rolling on Messenger.

 

Mark: Yeah, and also in 2019, both myself and Jeremy appeared at the unofficial Shopify podcast to share some knowledge on product launches and Jeremy on SMS marketing, and that was super exciting.

 

Jeremy: Yeah, definitely check out Kurt Elster’s unofficial shopify podcast, if you haven’t already. We were also on the 2x Ecommerce Podcast, talking about channel diversification in Messenger. So that was really exciting.

 

We released 27 episodes. This will actually be our 28th of the year on the Messenger Mastermind Podcast—it’s always exciting. It’s a lot of work, but we love it, we love doing this. We also as part of those episodes brought the head of three leading vendors: Alex from PostScript, Ben from OctaneAI, and Felix from PushOwl onto this podcast, which was really exciting to bring the latest updates to those products as well. And then, really cool from the Agency side of the business: we drove over 5 million dollars in revenue for clients in the past 6 months alone.

 

So, really excited just to see where that goes in 2020 and kind of how we can continue to grow. Now, to jump into why you are probably actually here: the changes we’re going to go over for each channel.

So, today, we’re going to focus on four primary channels that we saw have the greatest change in 2019, from both a platform and a growth perspective.

 

First, we’re going to cover Messenger. So, Mark, why don’t you start us off? What were the greatest wins we saw in Messenger over the year, and the greatest changes we saw to the platform?

 

Mark: 2019 was probably the banner year for messenger. We were able to grow lists at an extremely rapid rate, extremely affordable. We were able to have great conversational marketing with a lot of prospects. We were able to build this out for a lot of clients. It was really exciting to do it. It allowed us to do things that a lot of other marketers weren’t doing for ecommerce at the time.

Towards the end of this year, obviously, things are changing a little bit for Messenger. So that presents some both struggles and opportunities for us. But, overall, I would say that the future is bright for Messenger. Maybe not quite as strong as it was in 2019.

 

We sat down and covered this at length. I think we all believe that 2020 will be pretty strong for Messenger.

 

Ben: Yeah, it’s kind of crazy when you set down and you do this exercise of thinking back on the entirety of 2019 with the messenger platform, to think that we started this year with the checkbox going away, getting really nervous. Remember the sponsored message folder where they kind of segmented out businesses in the platform—we got really nervous about that. And now, these changes going into 2020 of the compliance and kind of eliminating some of the usefulness of ManyChat and bringing it back to the native Facebook Ads platform.

 

It’s changing so fast and so quickly that we could just do a different topic on it every week.

 

Mark: Yeah, totally. I think that one thing that remains to be consistent for messenger is that if you are doing it right and you are not out there trying to cheat the system, then you are going to be successful in what you do, and it will be valuable for you.

 

Jeremy: Yeah, definitely. I think it was crazy going from inspiration bots to instant product pulling to really seeing the channel take over and be insanely successful for releasing new product.

 

And I think the greatest change for me is kind of from a strategic standpoint just thinking through the channel as an owned channel, very similar to email., It was actually crazy. I was looking back at episodes from this past year, and we released an episode earlier this year directly comparing it against email. To the updates in 2020 where its’ really going to become much more of an advertising channel. And where instead of paying a service to send out the messages to everyone in your list, you’re going to start paying for specifics opens and going back to fighting against the Facebook algorithm. I think it’s been a really interesting change. I think that there’s still a lot of areas to grow the channel. I think it going to become a much more favorite tool for paid media agencies as well as paid media experts.

 

It changes every week. But even if we look at this in six months, we’ll probably have a completely different view of the channel—the channel will probably be operating at a very different strategic look for the business. Just because of how constantly and rapidly the channel is changing.

 

Mark: Yeah. My prediction for Messenger in 2020 is that us and everyone who listens to this podcast will absolutely crush it on Messenger, and everyone else will not do anything with it because they’ll have no idea what’s going on. So, you should probably listen to this podcast.

 

Jeremy: Send it to a friend.

 

My prediction for the channel for 2020 is Click-to-Messenger ads will take over as one of the most popular strategies among prospecting campaigns for everyone who’s advertising on Facebook. I think you’re going to start to see—especially as there’s even more traffic on both Facebook and on Stores moves to mobile—the proliferation of Click-to-Messenger ads, just because they’re so effective at prospecting as we’ve seen.

 

Ben: Yeah, and my prediction for 2020 for Messenger: I think they will bring the Instagram direct messaging platform and integrate it into the Facebook direct messaging platform, so that way you’ll be able to reach out on both channels.

 

Mark: Massive. Massive. That’s totally massive.

 

Jeremy: Yeah, that’ll totally change the game.

 

Okay, so moving onto our second channel. Keeping along the theme of Facebook: the changes to Facebook advertising have definitely been very impactful on a lot of businesses on our industry. So, Ben, why don’t you give a quick recap of what 2019 looked like from a Facebook advertising perspective.

 

Ben: Yeah. 2019 and toward the end of 2018, we obviously saw a big increase in pricing. Around the Black Friday time, we saw a lot of people, newer companies, or people who don’t play in the market the entire year hop in and kind of raise the prices up., We saw that steady increase throughout 2019. We did have a little meltdown from the platform standpoint in the February month which kind of reset everyone’s historical data which kind of made it a little difficult.

 

But things that worked for us in 2019—Jeremy touched on one already. CTM ads were really big. Click to messenger ads. They’re a good way to stand out, a good way to build our Messenger list which is very exciting. Another place that became very popular in 2019 that helped you stand out and was very cost effective was Instagram Story Ads and Facebook story ads which are very cool small under-15 second snippets where you can get in touch with your customer in a place where they’re interacting in.

 

And the other really cool thing in 2019 that was a pretty big staple and a big change to the platform was CBO, which is Campaign Budget Optimization. You were able to move your budget from the ads level to the campaign level and let the algorithm kind of find where the spend would be best utilized.

 

Mark: And also in 2019, obviously rocking the boat a little bit was Cambridge Analytica making a lot of things a little more difficult for advertisers, privacy-wise, obviously. Pulling back certain interest base, anything related to political ads, obviously, a little bit more sketch. So that certainly affected a lot of the ways 2019 went, especially just kicked off the bad press for Facebook overall, maybe removed some users from the platform, though I suppose that’s debatable.

 

And, definitely, the theme of 2019 is ad prices, which is all impacted based on that.

 

Ben: Yeah, and compliance, too, is another thing—they cracked down a lot more on ad copy and what you could be showing customers. A lot of big changes to the ad platform itself.

 

Jeremy: Yeah, I think you guys really covered all of it. That was pretty in-depth. I would say stories kind of had a moment but didn’t have a lot of staying power. Though there are a lot of people I still hear who are finding a lot of success there. I think also Instagram becoming really saturated and competitive. I think there’s a lot less low hanging fruits and just advertising in that channel overall than there was in 2017 and 2018.

 

And then, moving forward 2020, I think we’re going to see a lot more compounding effect of the same thing. I think that Facebook’s just going to continue to bring a lot more control into Facebook itself and try to limit their exposure for a lot these problems that they’ve been facing in 2019, and I think it’s going to be an interesting ongoing story of: is Congress going to call Mark Zuckerberg back up to the hill? Is there going to be more control and new laws and legislation to kind of slap Facebook?

 

And then, obviously, the one massive tidal wave of a trend to just be cognizant of is political advertising in 2020. I think there will be a lot of really interesting changes that happen along the evolution of the campaign leading up to the US presidential election in November that will continue to change how a lot of the advertising side of the platform works.

 

Ben: Yeah, and they’ve already announced some changes that will come to the platform to us as marketers. They announced that sometime in early 2020 that all campaigns will go to that Campaign Budget Optimization, the CBO that they did roll out last year that Mark and I had a chance to use. They’re trying to move the platform a lot more toward automation.

 

They do this thing called The Power of Five where you use their automation’s auto-placement, auto-bids, Campaign Budget Optimization, it kind of really is what they say feeds the algorithm and gets the best results for your company, which is a little different—depending on the marketer that you talk to—how much control that marketer wants, but one of things that will be really big on the platform in 2020 will be interactive ads.

 

They’ve already started rolling out some beta on some interactive stickers where you can vote right in the Facebook feed. They did this for Instagram stories, too, where you can actually poll your audience and get a little more playful it makes it look like it’s a native thing on the platform that one of your friends did.

 

And the last big thing for 2020 that they already had out in late 2019 is Dynamic Creatives, which are really powerful. Allows you to put 10 different creatives and videos into one particular ad set with 5 different headlines, 5 different descriptions, 5 different subtext, and it all optimizes for you right there on Facebook. So, no more sitting on your computer making 150 different creatives. You do it right there: 10, 5 headlines, all this stuff, plug it right in there, and it generates it all for you. So that’s something I’m really super excited about because I’ve been making those manually for the past two years.

 

Mark: So, my predictions for 2020 Facebook ads, probably should have compared notes a little bit more—I also had interactive ads. I’m super excited for those. Being able to pull audiences and collected data within an ad is going to be absolutely massive. I don’t think I could say enough about that, so we’re certainly excited about that.

 

But, just going onto a different topic in the Facebook ads realm, I would say probably the most concerning thing going into 2020 will be the increasing ad rates that all businesses are going to have on Facebook. This is obviously consistently ongoing, but I think in 2020 this will kind of hit a new threshold in that if you are a business that sells something probably under 40 dollars, you may officially be priced out of the market at this point by the end of 2020, this is just my prediction, but I would assume that once we have more and more massive players for example the Walmarts and the Targets of the world moving into Facebook ads, it will move it less affordable for those who have lower priced items, or those that don’t have the ad spend to compete with those. So, I expect that in 2020, we will see a massive shift in the type of companies that are able to advertise successfully on the platform.

Jeremy: Yeah, I would say that I’m going to mirror a lot of that same prediction. I think that a lot of companies who have survived on Facebook and thrived on Facebook over the past are going to be diversifying anywhere from 25 to 50 percent of their ad budget off of Facebook. I’ve been hearing a couple of stories about people having a lot of success on Snapchat or Pinterest, even going back to Google and trying out YouTube ads.

 

I think that we’re going to see a massive evolution where one of those platforms figures out what is the right feature set for advertisers and really prove that those conversions are coming in.

 

I think that there’s going to be a mass migration of a lot of the companies that helped Facebook advertising to what it is today—are going to migrate off of the platform just because it is too expensive to profitably run a business using Facebook as a primary acquisition channel.

 

Mark: Yeah, I’d also like to throw out: you know, those that are looking at and saying, like, “Well, this isn’t working, I need to get off the platform.” I would say that’s where you may want to spend some time listening to this podcast, because we will absolutely be able to teach ways to still utilize the Facebook ad platform.  Maybe you’re not going to just be going for Conversion purchases but there are plenty of other ways to do it affordably and still grow your business in 2020.

 

Ben: True. There’s a ton of little nooks and crannies right now that we just had test out during the Black Friday season where it gets really expensive. Stories are still just an unbelievable value for an impression. More video aspects and the Facebook watch and things like that and now them having the Facebook portal, they’re going to somehow get ads onto that thing inside people’s homes. I think they’re going to always be the front runner in all of these things. And I think that if you’re ready and brave enough when they announce something different that you just jump in, cannonball, right into the deep end and spend a bunch of money on it before everyone else figures it out.

 

Jeremy: Definitely. I think going along those—I don’t want to call it a new channel, because Facebook Groups have existed on the channel for a while—but we’ve covered it some on the podcast. Just seeing the incredible results we have seen through Facebook groups. I think that this is going to be the third channel that we really cover and the fact that it’s just such an incredible opportunity to just get a ton of organic reach on Facebook, and really build a loyal community and following.

 

Mark, I know you guys have invested a ton in your Facebook group this year. Do you want to break down what the changes have been, and the overall summary of Facebook groups that you guys are sitting on now?

 

Mark: Yup, I think you said it perfect. Facebook Groups are organic traffic. So the constant thing of “there’s no more free traffic. You have to pay to play.” I’ll continuously say this: this is not the case. Facebook groups still have an immense amount of free organic traffic. So, we played this in 2018 extremely well, we absolutely crushed it in 2019. I would call it a Top 2 Channel for us. Extremely valuable for us and as well for some of our clients. We’re starting to hear more from other brands, finally moving into the space. Now, moving to the end of 2020, there’s plenty of time to still get in on this and start using this.

Changes will come as more people, more brands start utilizing groups, but there’s no secret that Facebook wants groups to become the forefront of their platform., So, investing in this will also invest in your business at the same time.

 

Jeremy: Yeah, definitely. For anyone who isn’t familiar, you can create a private group on Facebook that is dedicated to any kind of topic. At Facebook’s developer conference back over the summer, they announced that this is going tobe the main place where they invest in the platform.

 

My guess is, just like everything else, they’re just going to grow it as much as they can organically, with the help of businesses like ours before they find a way to monetize it. But you’re going to have placement in the news feed. They even re-architected the user experience of how you can discover new groups, find new groups. They’ve dedicated a section in both the mobile app and the desktop so it’s easier to get to.

But just the community that you can build, and it’s what’s so unique about the channel—it’s very reminiscent of the organic pages—on both Facebook and Instagram—way, way, way, way back in the day where people actually did interact and talk to each other. Anything around a shared interest they really did build a community.

 

And just, yeah, seeing the results we have across multiple brands this year and seeing what other brands that we work with have done as well, I think that really gives an interesting opportunity for a lot of companies to truly build that community that I think is elusive for most.

 

Mark: Yeah, it’s really just about keeping your ear to the ground on what Facebook wants you to use. Because what they want you to use is what’s going to be most effective. And they want you to move into groups because of all of the issues they’ve had with privacy. The openness they’ve had has had some kind of kickback for them, so now they’re trying to pull back and close things up a little bit, and people enjoy spending time in groups that are piquing their interest rather than their newsfeed that is filled with bloated friends and family that they don’t want to see as much of.

 

Ben: Yeah, I mean, to go back to what Jeremy said, I think he’s right. And, not to get into a bigger philosophical debate, but, Facebook simply got too big. And the groups aspect will be the way it was when you first joined Facebook—when there wasn’t a ton of people there, you got content from the people you wanted to, who were only talking about the things that you wanted to hear about.

 

So, you can tell, as these guys both said, they made a great point where Facebook is clearly telling you that they’re dumping a bunch of money into it in their development conference. They’ve actually already come out with something we’re in a beta for, which is ads and ad placement within the group feed, which is really exciting from a Marketing standpoint. Exciting for us to be able to get people in our group.

 

Mark: Can we talk about that? Did you sign an NDA?

Ben: No, I didn’t sign an NDA.

 

And, I think the real beauty of Facebook groups from a marketing standpoint is that it is entirely content-based. Like Mark said, it is all organic in there, so you don’t have to pay to reach people. But in order to reach them, you need to keep them engaged and keep them interacting and keep them wanting to be on the platform. So, it’s really like the most pure form of marketing there is, which is really exciting and refreshing to see.

 

Jeremy: Definitely. I would say I would have two major predictions for 2020. Ben kind of just scooped one.

 

My first one would be that the businesses that really do properly invest in really building out a Facebook group and really make a meaningful effort to build a community in that channel will see an insane return on ad spend as well as customer satisfaction.

 

It’s one of those channels where it might cost you some money to bring people into a group, but once they’re there, you have people’s eyeballs, you have their attention, you have their engagement. If you leverage that properly, could drive massive sales from that channel that could really meaningfully change the business.

 

The second was going to be that we’re going to see ads surrounding Facebook groups. So either ads getting people into groups, or ads within groups in 2020 which Facebook is clearly working on.

 

Ben: Yeah, my prediction for 2020 about Facebook groups is that I think we’ll see them really focus on and really perfect and roll out the paid group feature, making it easier for people to join a Facebook group, and allowing companies to charge people to enter their Facebook group. I think that’s something that they played around with in 2019 and had a really small even alpha on it, but I think they will perfect that and by the end of 2020, that’ll be a thing that you see.

 

Mark: I will say the opposite. I will say that paid groups will be killed off in 2020 because I think they’re horrible. I don’t think they’re great at all, and I don’t think that people like them very much. I think that it makes them uneasy.

 

I will say that groups will absolutely continue to grow, maybe even to the point of a little bit of detriment for those that are currently using them. It might have some reach pulled away for those that don’t know how to use their group properly as far as engagement. But for those who are able to keep groups engaged, it will continue to be a strong asset, and I expect to see a lot of brands using them in 2020.

 

Jeremy: Cool, all right. So, we’re going to quickly jump into the last channel, which is SMS. Which, if you’ve been listening to the podcast over the last six months, you’ve noticed that we’ve begun covering it a lot.

 

I just want to start off with the fact that—when we started this podcast and we started talking about this, I really thought that Facebook Messenger was going to become the new email, and I will publicly say right now that I was completely wrong.

 

Facebook Messenger is going to take a very different direction now, and definitely a hard left turn from where email has progressed over the last couple of years. I will say now, and I really hope that I’m not doing this episode next year admitting that I was wrong again, but I think SMS will really, truly operate and function—both in a strategic and tactical manner—as the new email.

 

I mean, we’ve just seen an explosion in the channel across every aspect: people using it, the returns from it, vendors now support it. The feature set that is within the channel. And I think that there’s just going to be—the year was just amazing. Just as a quick recap:

 

SMS has been around, we’ve been using it probably since back in 2017, but it really took hold this year. The vendors who came on the scene really started to meaningfully gain some traction. I think SMS Bump had something like 15,000 Shopify sites using the platform. PostScript is now north of 500, and the feature set accordingly. It’s really gotten to the place where you can really start to do segmentation, automation, a lot of those things we’ve come to expect from email over the past couple of years.

 

And then, our experience. If you listen to the Unofficial episode I was on earlier this year, I talk about how we’ve done over a million dollars in SMS alone over the past couple of years. Where really most of that came from this year where the list building tools really advanced, all the other features around broadcasting, campaigns, automated flows, really became more meaningful, and I think we really started to see the legitimization as well as the maturation of the channel.

 

To the point where I do think we’re looking at a really long-term sustainable channel that businesses can build a meaningful list on, capture someone’s phone number, and keep it for a long time. They really build engagement if it’s really meaningful.

 

We’ve seen impressive numbers this year, and I think it’s only going to grow to be even more incredible in 2020.

 

Ben: Yeah, there is kind of a real intricate beauty to SMS marketing right now where it’s too expensive for people to mess around and not do it properly. And there’s so many rules and restrictions because it’s such an intimate channel for the customer that there’s already laws in place that you can’t break or else you will be sued.

 

I think that’s the beauty of it, whereas Facebook messenger kind of allowed and opened up for the spammers—same thing for the market emailers. And that may have been a thing a couple years ago, SMS spammers, but now I think it’s too difficult to do. So it’s really cool to see the restrictions and how you have to take the proper steps to reach your customers in order to make a really, really impactful marketing channel work for you.

 

Mark: Yeah. As far as 2019 goes for SMS, Messenger Marketing, just to be completely honest, I didn’t see it coming the way that it has. It has really come on strong the second half of the year. And it makes complete sense why it has. A brand is able to collect some numbers and do a simple broadcast or some cool automations.

 

You’ll see very quickly why it’s picking up steam the way it is. It just simply works, and it’s very powerful. Yeah, 2019 I’ve seen a lot of brands really adopt it, and just from a client side, I’m seeing a lot of really interesting clients and brands wanting to get on the train for this one because it seems to be really powerful and I certainly would expect that to continue going into 2020.

 

Certainly, tools like PostScript and SMS Bump have made this much more easy to do. And I think that’s probably the main reason it’s been able to increase. If the platforms weren’t there, it wouldn’t be there. So, I would say keep your eyes on apps like that that will allow us to do a lot of cool things moving forward.

 

Jeremy: Yeah, and just from the vendor perspective, I would say that those two were probably the big players in the space with maybe a couple of other players just starting to get into it. But this year, ManyChat opened up SMS. Octane opened up SMS. Klaviyo said they were getting into SMS. I’m probably forgetting about four other vendors. It seems like everyone, especially a lot of the Messenger vendors started moving into this space as well, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you started to see MailChimp and OmniSend and Listrak and other email vendors as well as SMS vendors offer SMS services as well just from how successful it is.

 

I think 2020, I have one challenge and one prediction. I think for any company that’s making around 20 or 25% of their revenue from email today, I challenge you to make 20 to 25% of your revenue from SMS by the end of 2020.

 

I think it is very possible to get those two channels to a parity point. My one big prediction moving into next year is: we’re finally going to start to see some features that are truly unique to the channel. I think if you’ve been tracking it for the past couple of years, it’s really been, “How do we get the feature set that’s parity to email?” And I think that, just talking with a lot of the brands working on SMS tools—we’re going to start seeing some truly unique features to the channel that could make it way bigger than email and could really change the game, especially if you have built up your program to be at a parity point to your email program.

 

Mark: Yeah, I would totally agree with that. I would say my prediction for SMS in 2020 would be more on the customer side of things. I expect that as the year goes on, customer will be more accepting of SMS and get more comfortable with it. Right now, I would say that a lot of the success that’s happening is due to the fact that they are not comfortable with it. It’s a little bit unfamiliar to them, so we’re able to reach them in a place that maybe others aren’t.

 

As 2020 continues, more brands will be using it, so maybe it will become a little more saturated. I won’t say that will take away from the effectiveness of it, simply because you will be still getting the eyeballs of extremely high open rates in an extremely short amount of time. But, I would say that overall, customers will become more accepting of this, maybe a little bit more willing to share their phone numbers for opt-ins, which will be really exciting for that opt-in rate go up.

 

Ben: Yeah, my prediction for 2020 as far as SMS goes is also on the Customer Experience side. I think it’s going to get more natural, like Mark was saying, for customers to use SMS as a marketing platform. I can see this opening up to actually having some customer service interactions inside of SMS, even though that might get a little pricy. And just as a hope from our end as marketers—I hope the pricing structure changes a little bit.

 

Right now there’s a credit-based system where you pay for text. I’m hoping there’s some kind of option for monthly subscription where you get unlimited or something close to unlimited. You can get creative and do some more content-based things through text, because I think that would be really great.

 

Jeremy: Yes. Please, please, please. If any of those vendors are listening. It would be one of the biggest barrier removers for growing that channel. It would be super exciting.

 

It’s been one incredible year across messenger, ads, Facebook groups, and SMS. I think we have been really excited about what we’ve seen and been able to do so far, and I think that 2020 is just going to be another year of great growth, a lot of new and interesting things to play around with, and a lot of new test to come for us.

 

And I mean, I think just in general, things that we’re going to be looking forward to in 2020 is releasing more podcasts, releasing more episodes. We’ve really put a lot of work into how we can more consistently release episodes and get more content out. Really excited to grow our audience more. Hopefully you all find a lot of value in these episodes and share them with other business owners and marketers that you know. And really just want to provide more content outside the podcast as well that will be really helpful for you all and transfer a lot of these learnings that we’re finding. And then, just help more clients. We’re really excited to continue to grow the business and grow the impact that we’re having and really try to tactically test and implement the things that we’re seeing in the current work we’re doing, and really excited for the year ahead.